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msmcknittington ([personal profile] msmcknittington) wrote2008-06-19 06:51 pm
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An egg's worth of education

Sixteenth century friends: I'm trying to remember something about the persecutions of Protestants and Anglicans under Mary Tudor in the 1550s. I seem to recall an, uh, anecdote about a pregnant woman being burned for heresy who gave birth to a son in the flames, and the baby was then flung back onto the fire.

Ring any bells? Is that even the right time and place? It might have been a French witch burning, too. And the baby might have been rescued from the fire.

I bet [livejournal.com profile] ciorstan would know.

[identity profile] ciorstan.livejournal.com 2008-06-20 12:21 am (UTC)(link)
Only 300 people were executed under Mary's reign. I don't recall reading of that particular atrocity offhand.

Under English law, a pregnant woman would be exempt from execution until delivered, then the child would be immediately fostered out and the woman sent to her fate. This was a stay of execution typically called 'pleading her belly.' It was not a 'get out of jail free' card.

Pity the child because the executed parent would have died a pauper and there would have been no incentive for anyone to support it. Poor laws were next to non-existent in Elizabeth's reign; they primarily consisted of vagrancy edicts.

The most notorious religious persecution comment is actually from the Albegensian Crusade, committed by the French against themselves (though the most effective campaigns were led by Simon de Montfort's father, another Simon de Montfort, yes, the father of the very guy who led the rebellion that culminated with the Magna Carta's execution and then his own death at the battle of Lewes)-- a city surrendered, and a bishop was asked if any should be spared.

"Kill them all. God will know His own."

Um. That's probably no help, erm?

[identity profile] lindseyerin37.livejournal.com 2008-06-20 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
That incident is reported as true in "The Children of Henry VIII" by Alison Weir. (page 296)

"...one woman, Perotine Massey of Guernsey, was pregnant. Her baby was born as she was burning, and cast back into the flames by the executioner."

Whether than incident is actually true or not, I have no love for Mary Tudor. Or any other religious fanatic.

[identity profile] ciorstan.livejournal.com 2008-06-20 05:52 am (UTC)(link)
Ahah, Foxe's Book of Martyrs:

Perotine Massey

(d. 1556)

Daughter of Katherine Cauches. Martyr. Of S Pierre Port, Guernsey.

[Ogier, Reformation and Society in Guernsey (Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1996), pp. 57-58.]

Perotine Massey lived with her mother, Katherine Cauches, and her sister, Guillemine Gilbert. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Vincent Gosset took a stolen silver cup to her in the hope of receiving money from her against it. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Thomas Effart testified that Massey informed the cup's owner, Nicholas le Conronney, of the cup's theft and Gosset was then apprehended. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Massey was imprisoned with her sister and mother because of the stolen cup brought to their house by Vincent Gosset. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Massey was found not guilty of theft but retained for not going to church. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Her case was put before Jaques Amy, the dean of Guernsey. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

A letter was sent from the Helier Gosselin (bailiff), lieutenant and jurats of S Pierre Port to Jaques Amy regarding the three accused women. 1563, p. 1542, 1570, p. 2127-28, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, p. 1943.

Foxe states that on 14 July 1556 Perotine Massey was examined before Hellier Gosselin, in the presence of Richard Devike, Pierre Martin, Nicholas Cary, John Blundel, Nicholas de Lisle, John Le Marchant, John le Fevre, Pierre Bonamy, Nicholas Martin, John de la March (jurats), and Jaques Amy. 1563, p. 1543, 1570, p. 2128, 1576, p. 1849, 1583, pp. 1943-44.

She was condemned as a heretic on 17 or 27 of July 1556. 1563, p. 1543, 1570, p. 2128, 1576, p. 1850, 1583, p. 1944.

She was first strangled but the rope broke. She gave birth in the flames. 1563, p. 1544, 1570, p. 2128, 1576, p. 1851, 1583, p. 1945.

Her child was initially saved by W. House but the bailiff insisted that the baby boy be thrust back into the flames. 1563, p. 1544, 1570, p. 2128, 1576, p. 1851, 1583, p. 1945.

I looked it up further, here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=OAUXAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=Perotine+Massey+of+Guernsey&source=web&ots=q6rcMcNqF4&sig=2Ev7UQIiyvocxzkJG1DL2M--39w&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA237,M1

and Foxe discusses the matter at length, outraged that the men who burned this woman and her child were pardoned by Mary, after the fact. There's a footnote on page 231 where Foxe righteously calls down the wrath of God in the afterlife to punish them...

She was, indeed, entitled to plead her belly and that child, a fair boy, should not have died the way he did.
ext_46111: Photo of a lady in Renaissance costume, pointing to a quote from Hamlet:  "Words, words, words". (Default)

[identity profile] msmcknittington.livejournal.com 2008-06-21 04:24 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Foxe's Martyrs is absolutely harrowing to read, isn't it? Makes me very happy for the general attitude in the Western World that religious difference isn't enough reason to burn people at the stake. Or, at least, the intolerance of most of the world for such things.

[identity profile] ciorstan.livejournal.com 2008-06-20 05:55 am (UTC)(link)
Heh. Alison Weir drives me nuts. Boring writing style, dry recitation of facts.

I like David Starkey better.
ext_46111: Photo of a lady in Renaissance costume, pointing to a quote from Hamlet:  "Words, words, words". (Default)

[identity profile] msmcknittington.livejournal.com 2008-06-21 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
That's it! I knew I wasn't hallucinating. I'm glad somebody's brain was more reliable than mine.

Mary Tudor was all sorts of messed up. Even if you forget the religious madness, you still had the baby-on-the-brain crazy, too. Of course, considering how messed up her family life was, it's probably understandable that she'd be a little nuts.

[identity profile] thepurpleempire.livejournal.com 2008-06-20 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
To be honest, the only reference I can think of to this (other than Lindsey's above) was in one of those pseudo-historical novels, although I'm at work and the name completely escapes me. One of those that takes what really happened and makes up the bits that don't suit. Maybe one of Phillipa Gregory's?
ext_46111: Photo of a lady in Renaissance costume, pointing to a quote from Hamlet:  "Words, words, words". (Default)

[identity profile] msmcknittington.livejournal.com 2008-06-21 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
It was the one Lindsey remembered. Of course, now I have to figure out what weirdness was happening in France, because there was a strange incident regarding women being executed there, too.